Summer Postcards: Ice Cream Vans

[00:00:22] Hello, this is Garlic and Pearls with me Muriel Zagha, I'm French, and my friend Suzanne Raine, who is British. And today is number four of the Garlic and Pearls Summer Postcards. You're in for a treat listeners because it's Suzanne's turn today and she's going to tell us about something quintessentially British.

[00:00:50] I am Muriel and first of all, I'm going to play you something. Oh, yes. We have enough of that. What does that evoke for you? Well, immediately it evokes ice cream. Yeah. It's the sound of the ice cream coming. You're so, yes.

[00:01:19] But it's something I've had to learn because as a French person, it's just tinny music with no meaning. Whereas for a British person, it means ice cream. And then there's a Pavlovian reaction where you suddenly have to have ice cream. You have to have a Mr. Whippy. Okay. So what are you talking to me about today? I thought I was going to talk to you about Mr. Whippy, but then I discovered that actually I'm very interested in ice cream vans.

[00:01:46] So what I'm going to talk to you about today is that, as you just heard, that familiar cheery chime, the vivid shouty appearance of the British institution that is the ice cream van, plying its wares up and down the streets of the UK in the summer months. Yes.

[00:02:10] And I think that, whereas I thought I was going to focus on the ice cream, what I've become fascinated by are the possibilities of the van. Oh. And I don't want to get too excited, Muriel, but there's so much of this that has garlic and pearls written all over it. And I hope that as I take you through the ice cream van journey, maybe in the back of your mind, you could be thinking, maybe we could do this.

[00:02:40] Maybe this is one for us. Oh, lovely. How exciting. So most British ice cream vans play a natty jingle and many of them are folk tunes and Greensleeves is the most popular. Yes. I will come to why that might be, but that's how it is. We still have around 4,000 ice cream vans on the road in the summer months.

[00:03:10] I think this is a fair one for me to do because although you love ice cream, you don't love it in this ridiculous kitsch, turning up on your street, playing Greensleeves sort of a way. We don't only eat gourmet ice cream. We like all the industrial brands that you like. And there are ice cream vans in France, but they are rare. They're not a permanent fixture of the landscape, especially in the summer. Not in the same way at all.

[00:03:40] So you're right. It's a lot more British than French. And what's weird about it, it's not exclusively British. It's also American. And possibly it's one of the, and you know, you've done a few where you've talked about the dialogue between the French and the American cultures. And this is definitely a kind of British American mashup of creativity where one has learned from the other and improvised.

[00:04:03] But I think that in America, in both places, it's taken massively seriously. Yeah. But like all things that we take seriously that are ridiculous, we also know that it's ridiculous, if you see what I mean. And I suppose, I think the Americans just see it as being part of America. So I will keep going. It's street vending, really, which has existed since forever.

[00:04:29] Yes, because now we have all these food vans and street food. But actually, ice cream vans have been doing that for ages. Well, apparently, Roman Emperor Nero Claudius Caesar, 37 to 68 AD, sent runners to the mountains to collect snow to be flavoured with fruit juices. So we've always had a hawker, as long as we've had wheels, pushing carts around.

[00:05:00] Obviously, the invention of motorised vehicles created a whole set of different opportunities for the street vendor. Of course. There is a suggestion and it's difficult completely to prove, but it's again, it's an American thing that along with the invention of the motorised seller of ice cream,

[00:05:21] came the soft serve ice cream, because some New York guy called Thomas Carvalos was selling ice cream from his truck in 1929. And then he got a flat tyre and so all his ice cream started to melt. So he started selling melty ice cream. And that became the soft serve. Who knows? It might be apocryphal, but it's the story that they tell. But the problem is, so you're diving along and you're selling ice cream.

[00:05:51] How do you lure in your customers? What do you mean? That's the thing. Well, you could be shouting with a megaphone, ice cream, ice cream. You could. Or you could play green sleeves. So again, I think the music came first from America. And they had a lot of, you know, those kind of Yankee Doodle and all those, you know, all those American tunes.

[00:06:16] And then when it came over to the UK, for some reason, it ended up with these kind of really retro folk music things. And there's a man who invented Mr. Whippy in the UK. So he is Mr. Mr. Whippy. Mr. Mr. Whippy. Although his actual name is Dominic Facino. And again, you see, this takes us back to the connection with the Italians who moved to the UK.

[00:06:43] We very famously had the Ice Cream Wars, which was lots of different rival Italian families. So Dominic Facino went to the US in the 50s. And he saw that there was an ice cream franchise called Mr. Softy. Oh, yes. With a double E, not with a Y. I know Mr. Softy with a double E, yeah. How do you know Mr. Softy? Well, I know the brand. I've seen it. So he couldn't license the brand in the UK.

[00:07:11] But Facino said, well, I'm not going to do Mr. Softy, but I'm going to do Mr. Whippy. It's a more British name, maybe. I don't know. And he set it up in Birmingham in 1958. And he had six bands. And then it just took off. The ice cream bands were branded as Mr. Whippy bands. And they had authorized licenses to sell this soft mix ice cream.

[00:07:39] And that got bought by Unilever very early, 1966. Oh, really? Gosh. Yes. Early mover. So then I thought, what's it made of? Oh. Is it ice cream? What do you think? Is it going to be a horrifying revelation or actually quite nice? So I found a recipe for it. And you could make it yourself. Oh, you can make that at home. I see. Okay.

[00:08:04] It's 600 milliliters of double cream, a tin of condensed milk, sea salt, vanilla extract, a piping bag and a star nozzle attachment. That sounds fine. Yeah. And you just basically put the cream in a bowl and whisk it, pour in the condensed milk and the vanilla and the sea salt, and then pour it into a baking tin and put it in the freezer and then pipe it out of a piping bag. That's how to make your own Mr. Whippy.

[00:08:33] But I suppose part of the fun is to have someone pipe it out of a machine for you. Yeah. And then what else would go with it? Well, is it a flake? Yeah. Yes. What number flake would it be? 99. So this was a great source of fascination and bemusement to me. I think the first summer I spent in Britain properly having moved here, why this piece

[00:09:03] of chocolate was there, what it was, I'd never seen a flake, and why was it called 99, 99 watt? So presumably, I never actually got to the bottom of it. So now you can explain it to me. This is as far as I've been able to get with the flake 99. So the flake was developed by Cadbury's, sadly no longer British, and the chocolate's not as good. No. In 1920, when an employee discovered that the excess chocolate from the moulds, when

[00:09:32] that was drained off in thin streams, it cooled into this distinctive ripple. You know, it's just... Unbelievable. So clever. Yeah. No, great. Like all great inventions was a sort of accident. All great inventions. Yeah. Even already by the 1930s, they were making a smaller one to go in ice cream cones. So it happened really quickly that people realised that it went really well with ice cream.

[00:09:57] There's no agreed narrative for exactly where the 99 name came from. Really? It does all sort of congeal around a story, possibly an Italian story. You know, we had all these Italian immigrant ice cream sellers in the UK. And in the First World War, the final group of conscripts to fight in the First World War were those that were born in 1899.

[00:10:24] And they were held in very high esteem that streets were named in their honour. And then in some how they said, well, these flakes reminded the ice cream sellers of a long, dark feather, which the conscripts used to wear in their alpini hats. Gosh, OK. Right. So that's quite a... It's quite niche. I would never have guessed that. Well, I would never have guessed that. And it doesn't seem...

[00:10:51] I mean, it seems quite a long way away from the Mr Whippy and the late 99. But there's got to be a reason why they're called 99. And it does seem to have some sort of Italian link. The other suggestion is that the guard of the Italian king had 99 men in it. And so it was a... 99 was a special number. It appears to be an Italian connection. OK. That's all I'm going to say. Do you want to be an ice cream van driver? Interesting question.

[00:11:19] I will give you a reply after the break. So, Muriel, you've had time to think about this. Is your answer yes or no to the question, do you want to be an ice cream van driver? So it's both yes and no, because I would like to be an ice cream van driver. But it has to be no, because I can't drive, remember?

[00:11:45] So if we were to start this business together, you would have to do all the driving. I'm happy to serve the ice cream. But you have to drive us. See, that could work. And then as long as I could press the garlic and pearls theme tune every time we turn into the street. We'd sell so much ice cream. So you could either be an employee of someone else's van,

[00:12:15] or you could start your own ice cream van business. I would definitely start our own ice cream van business. I think so too. These are the main advantages. I found this amazing how to start up your own ice cream van business website. And these are the advantages. This is what we need. People are on holiday and they need to be planning their next business venture. These are the advantages. Excellent profit margins. When the weather is fine and the pitch is right, ice cream vans can clean up.

[00:12:42] They offer the best profit margins in catering. Really? Which doesn't say much for the quality of the ice cream, frankly. No. Minimal waste. You know, if you're selling burgers, there's loads of waste. But if you're selling ice cream, you've got your Mr. Whippy dispenser and you've got your cones. So it's just very simple. Number three, little skill required. I like that. Except being able to drive the thing. Yeah.

[00:13:12] But you're not making the ice cream. So that's all there. You just need the van. You need the machine. You need good food hygiene, a driving license and sometimes a DBS check to check that you can work with children. Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah, yeah. That's a bit sinister, isn't it? When the green sleeves, creepy. Final key. Pied Piper element of it. Yeah. Seasonal popularity, both a strength and a weakness. Hot weather, great.

[00:13:41] Not so brilliant in November. And the other major advantage of having an ice cream van is that you can drive around and find your customers. So you don't have to sit there in a high street and wait and see, you know. You can hunt them down. You can hunt them down. Brilliant. They can't escape you because you can just follow them around. Very good. Disadvantages, though. Yeah.

[00:14:09] Quite, quite complicated to get all the licenses. And I'm going to do a little bit of stuff about that in a minute. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Every local authority has various interpretations of the legislation and the rules. You need to have street trading licenses from the local council. In fact, I've got this amazing checklist, a 10-point checklist from Catering Insurance Protection. I'm showing you here a picture of a van. Amazing photo of a van.

[00:14:38] And the checklist. These are things that you have to do. Preparation and readiness your foundation for a successful summer in the van. Number one, deep clean and sanitize your van. All interior surfaces with food-safe sanitizers. Wash the full exterior. Number two, maintain the vehicle. Service the engine. Test all catering equipment like freezers and soft-serve machines. Three, check your inventory. Contact suppliers to confirm prices.

[00:15:08] Because what you don't want is to find that you've left it till the last minute and it's sold out of Raspberry Ripple. Oh, dear. Four, UK road legal checks. MOT, vehicle tax, lights, indicates got to all work. Five, register with your local authority. Display your hygiene rating and ensure staff have hygiene training. That's for food. Six, get your business documentation. Secure a valid trading license from the local council.

[00:15:37] Have public liability insurance documents ready. Quite hard work. Seven, insure your van and all the interiors. Update your business insurance. Ensure public products. Employers' liability cover levels are adequate for the new season. Then these are the critical things. Nine, plan your routes and pitches.

[00:15:59] Yeah, I was going to ask about that because presumably, okay, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but my question was going to be, where can you pitch? Because presumably there's going to be competition for the best pitches. Yes, there is. How do people manage that? Well, I think it's quite unpleasant. And do you remember our producer, Matthew, who seems to in some way have a finger in all the pie?

[00:16:28] He does. That's why he's such a great producer. He was telling you, his father had an ice cream van and he said it got quite, quite vicious, the competition. And I think it does. So I've been on TikTok where I've been watching some, you know, how to be an ice cream van TikTok videos. And it does seem that there is a proper issue because once you've got your van, you've got to find somewhere where someone else isn't already.

[00:16:57] And I think it might get a bit frightening at times. Territorial and scary. Yeah. A bit territorial. So this, the advice here in the thing about being a good ice cream van owner says, be sure of one thing. If you're going to set up a business, someone will already be working the pitch that you've got your eye on. Yeah. It can be very difficult to break in where there are several vendors already operating.

[00:17:26] And it has been known to create threatening behavior. If you decide to go to the franchise route, you may find there's a support mechanism in place to help with pitch finding. But in general, this is the hardest part of setting up an ice cream business. Oh, dear. So that's a real consideration to take. Also, we have to think, are we going to buy into a franchise like Walls or something? Are we going to trade on the streets or at events, one or the other, or both?

[00:17:57] What type of ice cream are we going to sell? Soft, organic, gelato. You know, I mean, garlic and pearls, a little bit profitable. Can we afford a really good van? Not at the moment. No. Maybe soon. So we have to think about those things. We also need to think about the Code of Practice on Noise from Ice Cream, Van Chimes, etc., which was published by DEFRA in England in 2013.

[00:18:28] Oh, really? And what does that specify? It's an offence under Section 62 of the Control of Pollution Act 1974 to use a loudspeaker in the street. There is a specific exception for the operation of loudspeakers fixed to vehicles used to convey and sell perishable commodities for human consumption to the public, such as ice cream. Okay. Provided they don't give unreasonable cause for annoyance to persons in the vicinity.

[00:18:57] What do you think an unreasonable cause for annoyance would be? I can't imagine that anyone would ever be annoyed by our jingle, which is so jaunty and uplifting. So I don't think it would ever apply to us. But I suppose you can't be barreling down residential streets in the middle of the night playing your chimes at top volume. So when it's a residential area and it's past a certain time, probably.

[00:19:25] It's an offence to sound your chimes before 12 noon or after 7pm. And it's an offence to sound your chimes at any time in a way that is annoying to anyone. Yeah. But then there are also a set of very clear guidelines. So you must not sound your chimes for longer than 12 seconds at a time, more often than once every two minutes. So one of you is sounding the chimes, the other one is timing the chimes. Yes.

[00:19:54] You also can't sound your chimes more than once when the vehicle is stationary at a selling point. But this is interesting because it explains why the chimes are so intermittent because I had noticed that. I had noticed there is a sort of weird scarcity of the chimes. But of course, there's a reason now. I understand. And it would drive everyone mad otherwise. But also, you may not play your chimes. And I love this one because I just think there's so much behind this.

[00:20:23] When in sight of another van, whether moving or stationary, which might be reasonably taken to be in the street for trading purposes. So you can't each turn up playing Green Seeds at an increasingly high volume. So that would be really funny. You could hide around the corner. Yeah. Because then you wouldn't be in sight of another van. Trying to lure other customers around the corner.

[00:20:52] You also can't play it when within 50 metres of schools during school hours or hospitals or places of worship, which is a shame because I think especially in hospitals and places of worship, you need ice cream. You do. And you can't sound the chimes more than once every two hours in the same length of streets. So we've got lots of different time regulations here. Okay. And you can't be any louder than 80 decibels at seven and a half metres. Okay.

[00:21:22] It's a lot to think about. It's a huge amount to think about, all of which we would have to think about before we got any further. So now we're coming to the really exciting bit. I should have started with the really exciting bit, but maybe it's better to build to a crescendo. Britain's top ice cream van manufacturer. Oh.

[00:21:44] The biggest UK ice cream van manufacturer is Whitby Morrison, which is based in Crewe in Cheshire. Oh, not in Whitby, obviously. So that would be too easy. No, it was founded by Brian Whitby. Okay. But that's interesting because my last summer postcard was Whitby Seafoods. Yes. So there's this strange thread. So in Crewe. In Crewe. And they still make these vans. Lovely.

[00:22:11] Brian Whitby in 1965 filed the UK patent. And this was revolutionary. And this is why if anyone says Great Britain isn't great, maybe we are just great at doing the things that really matter to us. Yes. He patented mobile ice cream producing equipment through which soft serve units were powered off the van's drive mechanism, which meant you didn't have to keep the engine running. That's an amazing brainwave.

[00:22:41] So good. Yeah. So good. So now they produce around, this is going to sound like a small amount, but remember how many we actually can take on a, you know, there's a problem because they bought to be on different streets. He produces around 100 vans a year and exports those to over 60 countries. And those countries include, not France on my list, but Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan.

[00:23:11] Where they love their Whitby Morrisons. In 2014, they sold 20 ice cream vans to Azerbaijan. Interesting. Very interesting. When, uh, this, I was reading an interview with Ed Whitby, who's the third generation of the Whitby family who still makes them. And he was just making one when he was being interviewed that was being sent to Libya for a customer there.

[00:23:38] And he said it's the 13th van that the customer had ordered since Gaddafi was toppled. He takes them over the Med via Sicily, passing migrant boats coming the other way. It's insane. This is just extraordinary. I know. They don't make them from scratch, the vans. They convert a set of other ones, particularly the Ford Transits and the Mercedes Sprinters.

[00:24:08] You'll do about 60 new and then 30 conversions and then these vintage van conversions that he does. And that dwarfs the rivals completely. Although, in 2015, there was a massive scandal. Yeah. Because another company in Yorkshire bought a Whitby Morrison van to reverse engineer it to then copy it and sell it. No.

[00:24:37] They were tipped off by people in the industry that one of their customers who'd bought the van had actually then taken it to pieces to work out how they did it and was then making their own and selling them in almost identical copies of Whitby Morrison. So, it went to the High Court of England and Wales, which found that there'd been an infringement of the designs, including interior and exterior bodywork and the direct drive system. Ah. So, it upheld. They won in the end. Okay.

[00:25:07] So, Whitby Morrison. I'm scooting through, really, but they're huge in crew. I mean, Whitby Morrison are the makers of ice cream vans. They support in crew Alexandra FC Stadium. There's the ice cream van stand. I'm showing you a little photograph of that there. Oh, yes. Gosh, it's huge. Well, it is huge. Yeah. It's huge. Is there anywhere else that has an ice cream van stand?

[00:25:37] I can't, I've never heard of such a thing. So, that's very particular to crew. I think so. They've basically sponsored crew Alexandra since the 50s and they still do and they support the new shirts as well. They're constantly innovating. They're building giant ones. They built, for example, for a man called Mark Faulkner in Dublin.

[00:25:59] They built this huge, giant ice cream van based on a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 519 chassis cab. Wow. Designed for major events, festivals and high footfall locations. It's capable of serving up to 15,000 ice cream cones thanks to the Whitby Morrison e-Power WME 70 system. Gosh. Yeah.

[00:26:26] So, now we come, Muriel, to the super exciting bit. Okay. I've been on icecreamvantrader.com. Did you buy one? No. But I've got two suggestions for us. Oh, lovely. You found some for us. I think there is nothing more summer postcardy than icecreamvantrader.com, which is an auto trader site solely for ice cream vans.

[00:26:55] And they've all got names as well. Okay. So, it's completely brilliant. So, I picked a really cheap one and quite an expensive one. Okay. And then we could compare which one we're going to get. Good, good. Yes. Which one do you want first? Cheap or expensive? Start expensive. Okay. Mr. Whippy Ice Cream brackets. His name is Humphreys. They've all got names. Humphreys. Humphreys costs £129,995 plus tax. Okay.

[00:27:25] And it's a 2023 72 plate Mercedes Sprinter with an automatic gearbox, passenger seat layout, 17 inch alloys and leather seat. Leather seat. Leather seat. The Whitby Morrison Amalfi bodywork. Short wheelbase. A Carpeggiani Rapida X soft ice cream machine with a silver bock compressor. That sounds really good. Slimline freezer. Yeah. Three-door chiller with lift-up drinks lid.

[00:27:57] Upgraded power pack system. Electric awning. One owner from new. As new condition. Available, and this is the Twister. Available September 26. Yeah. No, but what does that say to you? Well, at the end of the season, surely. Yes. So one owner from new who's having a last hurrah in Humphreys. Before retiring from the ice cream life.

[00:28:24] But I think that it might not be as new condition in September. What's the cheap one? Cheap one is Mario. Mario. These are both Mr. Whippies. Okay. Mario is a 1991 Ford Transit short wheelbase with a renewable banana engine. I don't know what that is. And it's a genuine Whitby Morrison conversion. So that's what Whitby Morrison converts from transit bands.

[00:28:53] Again, well, it has a Carpeggiani soft ice cream machine. Sorry. How much is it? We didn't say. Oh, it's an absolute bargain. Right. £15,995. That's a lot more affordable. So a tenth of the price, really. Yeah. Not more affordable. I mean, still expensive. But then it's the most profitable food vending business there is. Excellent margin. That also comes with a Carpeggiani soft ice cream machine.

[00:29:24] But it's a Van 1, not a Rapida X. And it's a York compressor, not a Silver Bock compressor. So there's a difference. I like the sound of the Silver Bock compressor. Now I've got my heart set on it. That's what happens. It's got a four-lid freezer. Yeah. And a double chiller, whereas the Humphreys had a three-door chiller. It's got a camera so you can go backwards. I think the one that's £130,000 doesn't feel that it needs to mention that.

[00:29:52] But I suspect that comes as standard premium dint in 1991. And then it says ready to work with 10 months MOT. So we could actually buy it now. Yeah. Amazing. Do it tomorrow. Yes. Well, you know, if I could drive. It's very tempting. I can't drive it. No. And then it says at the bottom, important notice. Okay.

[00:30:15] Whilst everything is in working order, due to the van's age, it is sold as seen with no guarantee or warranty implied. Okay. Well, that is a little bit of a red flag. Unless you're a brilliant mechanic, which I'm not. But I suppose if you're a great mechanic and you're very good at tinkering, then possibly. I think our producer Matthew could get it on the road. I think he could. It's quite exciting.

[00:30:44] And I can just visualize it because, you know, you were showing me before a picture of a van in classics of seaside colors of yellow and blue, the sort of very marine blue, lovely. But imagine a van clad in our own colors in our pink and blue garlic and pearls livery and how attractive that would be. Where would you take it? Well, I think we would go all the way around the coast. We would just go on a massive odyssey. We'd take it to Scotland. We'd take it everywhere.

[00:31:13] We'd take fights with every single ice cream bender in the country. Well, we would impose ourselves everywhere and behave as though we were driving a tank. No, obviously that's not the right approach. We would befriend our competitors and take turns like civilized people on the same pitch. This is fascinating, Suzanne. Thank you.

[00:31:39] And it's always good to know that there's an alternative career in case this podcast thing doesn't work. Of course, we could combine both. That's the beauty. We could become a mobile podcast with ice cream. Yes, like Radio 2 do. That's right, exactly. Brilliant. This has made me want to stick to the high road. I'm sure all our listeners are feeling that way. Thank you, Suzanne.

[00:32:06] Everybody, be nice to your ice cream van drivers and ice cream sellers because this sounds like it's actually quite a hard job. No, it's the easiest street vending job. Well, yes, but all the regulations and things. They have to carry all that in their heads and time their jingles and chimes and not, you know, make any noise for hours and then there are a little bit of noise. I think that's quite a lot to expect. I agree. So well done. Kudos to all of them. I look forward to the next postcard, Suzanne.

[00:32:35] I wonder what it's going to be. It's going to be a French one. Yes. Bonne vacances, Muriel. Bonne vacances, Suzanne. Bye. Bye.